September 20, 2019

Advisory services

The Big 4’s Spurious Independence in One Chart

Mark O'Connor of Monadnock Research wrote an epic post over at re:The Auditors yesterday on the Big 4's advisory performance for 2013 and the resulting "conflict metrics." The whole post is worth a read but this chart sums things up well.                                […]

Big 4 Boomerang: Former Advisory Professional Has People Whispering Sweet Nothings in His Ear

Considering a change in cubicle scenery? Cooking up hypothetical situations for your last day at work? Recently thrown out of the house and need someone to pick out your work clothes? Email us with your questions and we'll manage a few sentences that resemble an answer. Going Concern:   There is a lot of information […]

Big 4 Advisory Intern Wants To Squeeze Blood Out Of A Turnip

Your daily serving of vegetables, brought to you by GC. Subject: Advice: negotiating a starting salary GC,I am graduating in December from a masters in accounting program and I am currently interning at Big 4 firm in advisory.  I am hoping to get an offer after the internship and join the firm in January.  Is […]

Are Ernst & Young’s Lobbying Activities a Violation of Auditor Independence Rules?

This morning we linked to a Reuters story that revealed Ernst & Young doing quite a fancy dance with auditor independence rules. You see, there is an advisory group within the firm known as Washington Council Ernst & Young who "helps clients manage opportunities and risks associated with the legislative and regulatory process." That's a quite […]

Why Do People Become Auditors in the First Place?

Ed. note: Is busy season bringing out the worst in you? CPA exam seem hopeless? Having trouble finding the box of tickmarks in the supply room? Email us your problems and one of us will put you on the couch. GC,   I recently decided to leave my position in a Big Four Advisory position after […]

(UPDATE) This PwC Senior Associate Is One of Forbes’ 30 Under 30 in Finance and You Are Not

His name is Zack Capozzi, he went to Notre Dame (John Veihmeyer wanted this kid bad) and "is developing new business initiative for PwC using predictive analytics." He was a domer from 2004 – 2008, majoring in computer science, according to his LinkedIn profile (conveniently provided by Forbes), joining PwC's Chicago office in '08. Zack's Facebook page (also […]

Bonus Watch ’11: Deloitte Gives Up PowerPoint Presentations After Stellar Going Concern Reporting UPDATE: Audit Practice Didn’t Get the Memo

This just in from the Deloitte FAS comp call that is apparently going down circa now:

7% AIP pool. No slides with details b/c it ends up on GC. Talking about PwC right now.


What, exactly, is being said about P. Dubs is not immediately known but I’m guessing it has something to do with the fact that they’re obviously vulnerable in the Tampa market but actually it’s more like simple trash talk, according to our source:

[PwC] made draconian cuts during the recession. They are making up for it now. They suck, D&T rules. [FAS CEO] David Williams is stressing total comp., not just base salary throughout the call. Base comp is targeted at 50% of the comp survey range.

[PS -] He loves to use the word “granular” as much as possible.

Unrelated sidenote: David Williams’ favorite hobby, according to his firm profile, is yoga.

Of course you’re on the call and have other details you wish to share, you can elaborate below.

Earlier:
Comp Watch ‘11: Deloitte’s New Structure Is Taking Shape

UPDATE:
A little comparison for AIP and merit increases for the opiners appears on the following pages.

(UPDATE) Future Big 4 Advisory Associate Wants to Negotiate a Better Salary

Ed. note: Got a question for the career advice brain trust? Email us at advice@goingconcern.com.

Caleb –

“Long-time/first-time, love the show.” I was hoping you and the gang could help; I have received an offer from Big 4 Advisory as a Senior, and considering the current market, and that firms are expanding advisory quickly and trying to capture market share and increase revenues, I am wondering if I would be able to negotiate my salary north. I did not receive a signing bonus, but I know the Big 4 can be touchy about your salary, so maybe I should look into getting a signing bonus? I wanted to get your expert panel’s opinion, as well as your millions of readers. Thanks for your help.

Signed –
Sleeping well in San Diego

San Diego Napper,

Welcome to the show. It’s great to see that Caleb is getting more advisory professionals reaching out. We’re all one underpaid, overworked professional services family so keep the emails coming.

Regarding your question, the timing is probably too late for you to maximize your bargaining power, both with your firm and in the greater job market. Being that you’re a senior (now a newly minted graduate) the window of opportunity has probably passed. You most likely received your fulltime offer either after completing a summer internship in 2010 or during the fall semester of your senior year. Then would have been the ideal time to “shop around” to the other Big 4 to see if you could earn yourself a competing offer. By this point in time, both the Big 4 and the major players in the consulting market have met their entry level hiring needs.

Similarly, without a competing offer in your back pocket, asking for a sign-on bonus now is the equivalent of looking for a free hand out. From browsing this website you know that’s generally not the way things work. Not to mention the fact that your firm wants its new hire class starting at the same monetary level; should you receive a sign-on, they’d be inclined to throw something to everyone. Why? Because all it takes is a team happy hour and you drunkenly blurting out, “I called up HR, spoke my mind and landed five grand, suck on that,” to stir up all kinds of angst within your practice.

Unless new hires are reneging on their acceptances and jumping ship for much lucrative (and last minute) offers, they will not be shelling out additional cash prior to your start date. The best thing you can do is work your tail off during your first year, positioning yourself well for the first year-end reviews in order to scoop up the heftier of the raises.

UPDATE: Blame the sun.
Apologies for missing the mark on this one, ladies and gents. As I sat in my corner office parents’ basement enjoying a nice Cuban Phillies Blunt cigar, I debated which way to take this piece. Let’s look at the experienced hire route – like many of you have commented, there is definitely wiggle room for SWiSD to negotiate.

There are number of intangibles in play here: where SWiSD is now; what practice line they are in; if the firm they are moving to is an “upgrade” in market position for their practice line. Generally speaking, SWiSD should be receiving a bump in base from their current salary; a conservative estimate would be 4% – 10%. When negotiating for more $$$, SWiSD would be better off asking for a sign-on bonus. HR would prefer to position compensation as a one-time lump rather than have a new hire be significantly above their established staff in salary.

Great feedback everyone. Has anyone recently made the jump from one Big 4’s Advisory line to another firm’s? Tell us below.

New Leadership Appointment Causes Unrest Inside Deloitte Advisory

As we’ve discussed, there has been a bit of controversy around the leadership election process at Deloitte. We first reported this news to you in January with a follow-up story on the candidates, the sorry turnout that was expected, and finally the news that the three candidates had been elected to their respective positions.

Today we have more controversy from inside the house of D but this time it is from a sub-group in the Enterprise Risk Services (aka Advisory or “ERS”) practice. There have been a number of recent leadership appointments within ERS but one in particular that caused a Deloitte partner to reach out to GC. This individual belongs to the Security and Privacy Practice (“S&P”) which consists of approximately 80-90 partners and has been recognized as one of the “12 leading global information security & risk consulting service providers” by Forrester Research Leader for their expertise in this area, according to the Deloitte website.

According to our source, the issue that has caused concern amongst many partners in the S&P group is that the new leader does not have extensive experience in the Security & Privacy area. Our source explained to us that a recent theme inside the firm has been “leading from the front” best encapsulated by leaders like Theodore Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and others who lead based on setting an example. The feeling of the S&P partners is the most recent appointment is based more on cronyism rather than qualifications and past performance.

The leader of the ERS group who makes the appointments is Owen Ryan, a Deloitte veteran who has held several leadership positions at the firm and has led ERS for the past 2-3 years. Our source told us Mr. Ryan has run the advisory practice creating an environment of cronyism and nepotism by appointing individuals, including family members, closest to him and that this appointment in S&P has partners saying this is the latest example of “the emperor having no clothes.” S&P supposedly has many qualified partners who have held leadership positions in the past who could lead the group but were passed over. This has many of them worried about what will become of their reputation as a top service provider in the area and how clients will perceive this appointment.

We spoke to a former Deloitte partner who worked in the Securitization and Structured Products Group (also part of ERS) who confirmed these allegations of nepotism and cronyism. “I wouldn’t go so far to extrapolate what occurred in our group to others,” the former partner said, “but that was certainly my experience.”

Despite this, one insider who is familiar with the leadership at Deloitte described Mr. Ryan as a “results-oriented businessman” who is cognizant of how “his decisions will reflect on him.” This source further told GC that “[Mr. Ryan] would not compromise the potential success of the ERS group by appointing someone to a leadership position who wasn’t qualified.”

Mr. Ryan’s no-nonsense style has manifested itself into some interesting behavior. Our original source told us that he takes attendance at ERS partner meetings and fines individuals $20 for using their BlackBerrys or speaking to neighbors during them. Our source said the money collected goes to charity.

Mr. Ryan did not respond to our voicemail requesting an interview.

The concern in S&P is understandable; an outsider leading a niche group would rankle the feathers of the most laid back partner. However, these decisions are rarely made in a vacuum and Mr. Ryan has his own superiors to report to. The other aspect to consider is the difference between technical leadership and what one source called “visual” leadership. There are many partners capable of leading a practice based on technical merits but the vision and flexibility needed to keep a group progressive in a fast-paced market does not always accompany technical expertise. Quite simply, if the leadership appointments that are made on Mr. Ryan’s watch do not prove successful, he will certainly be held responsible, but there is a lot of concern that the reputations of many of the firm’s best service lines may suffer in the process.

Ernst & Young Advisory Intern Wants to Get an Idea of What the Overtime Gravy Train Will Be Like

From the mailbag:

I will be a full time Advisory intern at Ernst and Young in Manhattan this coming summer. The duration of the internship is 7 weeks starting mid June. We just received a raise in our salary which has me thinking about compensation.

As you know, interns receive overtime which can contribute significant weight to overall pay. After researching the internet and the GC archives, I have not been able to find a clear answer regarding what I can expect for overtime hours. I know this varies by firm, workload, work groups etc but can you estimate an average of overtime hours per week? If any?

Right you are, grasshopper – it will depend on various factors you mentioned as well the clients you are assigned to, and what kind of expectations your superiors have (maybe that’s what you mean by work groups?). ANYWAY. In all likelihood, you’ll see some overtime hours which will probably result in some nice paychecks this summer but don’t be surprised if managers are staying on top of the hours you’re working. The Big 4 and other accounting firms aren’t quite as loose with the wallet as they used to be so I’d guess your hours will top out somewhere in the 50s on a weekly basis. That puts you in the range of 10 to 15 hours of OT a week (20+ only for those who work for lunatics). If your senior isn’t a headcase then you can expect 40-50 hours a week.

If you fancy yourself a intern hour handicapper, throw some numbers out there. And, interns, when things get rolling, get back to us with your numbers.

Can a KPMG Audit Intern Pull the Switch to Advisory?

Welcome to the tax-day-tease edition of Accounting Career Emergencies. In today’s edition, a young Brit has an audit internship with KPMG but would wants to pull The Switch and work in the advisory practice. Proposing a ménage à trois probably isn’t going to work so what’s the alternative?

Are you tired of being tired? Trying to build a celebrity client practice? Need some gift idea for your new overlords? Email us at advice@goingconcern.com and can recommend something other than a fondue set.

Back across the pond:

Dear GoingConcern Team,

Firstly I have really enjoyed reading your articles and as a budding/ aspiring accountant I was hoping you could help me. I got a internship offer for KPMG in audit which is great, but I think its likely I would feel more comfortable going into Advisory, probably Transactions and Restructuring branch of the Firm. Obviously I have to stick it out in audit for the internship, but is it possible to switch between service lines after, and probably location too?

I know that in the KPMG selection process I still need to go through the Partner Interview, so would you say I am potentially blowing my chances if I switch from Audit to Advisory, or should I play it safe, stick it out with Audit, and the ACA, and then transfer, assuming I passed and survived?

Thank you!

Dear Flip the Switch,

In the words of another, “Well, if I hear you correctly–and I think that I do–my advice to you is to finish your meal, pay your check, leave here, and never mention this to anyone again.”

Now maybe things are a little different in the UK but what you’re proposing is almost impossible to pull off and I’m not sure how you got in this situation in the first place. If the revelation that you’re more interested in advisory just came to you recently, that’s one thing. Your desire to pull a switch may be understandable but that doesn’t make it any more feasible. If, on the other hand, you accepted an audit internship with the knowledge that in reality you wanted an advisory internship, why didn’t you apply for an advisory internship?

On top of that you are also wanting to inquire about a moving to another office before you start full time? Let me see if I understand this correctly: you took an internship in a service area where you have no interest, in a location where you don’t want to live. Do you see why I’m confused? I’m not suggesting that you can’t ask but expect some side-eyed looks after you broach the subject. In other words, you could be “blowing your chances” because you sound like a person who doesn’t know what they want. These firms want people who are ready to hit the ground running, not someone who can’t seem to choose a path. If you can sit still for a year or three, then maybe you can start to inquire about a transfer of service line or location but as an intern-about-to-become-first-year, you’ll just sound like a lost puppy.

What Exit Opportunities Exist for a Big 4 Transaction Services Professional?

Welcome to the maybe-we-should-start-pointing-out-who-really-isn’t-winning edition of Accounting Career Emergencies. In today’s edition, a future advisory professional wants to know what kind of exit opportunities he’ll have when he’s had his fill of Big 4.

Need some career advice? Concerned that you’re being unfairly portrayed by someone? Have you recently found a mistake at work and aren’t handling it well? Email us at advice@goingconcern.com and we’ll, at very a tie score.

Onward:

I will be starting at a Big 4 firm in TS this fall. I have seen posts and comments on GC primarily about KPMG’s TS group, and commenters mention a “mass exodus” from TS.

I was interested to know what the exit opps are for people in TS? I have been searching around banking blogs and it seems that TS is not held in high regard in I-banking, so what offers are they receiving?

Sincerely,

Interested Viewer

Dear Interested Viewer,

The advisory space isn’t my strong suit but I’ll take a stab. You’re starting with a “Big 4” but then mention KPMG so I’m not exactly sure where you’re ending up so I’ll keep things fairly general. All of the Big 4 have various services within their TS practices including due diligence in various forms, restructuring, accounting advisory and valuation among others. A common exit opportunity for many in Big 4 TS people is to go to…wait for it…another Big 4 firm. None of these firms have a monopoly on the services offered so if you’ve heard good things about Deloitte as opposed to your living hell at PwC, you may jump at the opportunity to join a rival firm. And we know how the firms like to poach from each other, don’t we?

If that’s not of interest to you, the top consulting shops like McKinsey, Bain & Co., Boston Consulting et al. (check out Vault for their list of the top firms) are a possibility but in reality, not a very good one. These firms like their people with smarts – frightening smarts – and Ivy League degreed. If you’ve got both, you probably already work at one of the best firms. If you’re lucky enough to have one of those two, you might have a chance. If you’ve got neither, than you have virtually have no chance.

You mention I-Banking and again, the odds are against you here if you want to work at the top firms, for the same reasons as we mentioned above. Some more realistic options include due diligence, acquisitions or analysis work for a private equity or hedge fund shop or working in the finance group of a firm with M&A aspirations or that needs other complex transactional analysis.

The other option is that you work for awhile, get an MBA and then try to land the BSD job at McKinsey, Goldman or wherever. Of course hitting the big time after going to a prestigious B-school doesn’t mean your dreams of rainmaking are a lock, so it’s a big risk but obviously many have taken this road and made a decent run.

So, there you have it, Interested Viewer: some ideas, at the very least. Any Big 4 TS types out there with some first-hand accounts of the comings and goings are invited to weigh in at this time. I’ve got to get caught up on the #winning Twitter feed.

When Should a Future Auditor Mention to His Firm That He’s More Interested in Forensic Accounting?

Welcome to the dead-seven-Irish-guys-in-a-garage edition of Accounting Career Emergencies. In today’s edition, a future Big 4 auditor wants to get into forensics ASAP but is concerned about appearances. How should he broach?

Have a question about your career? Need a post-Valentine’s Day/busy season break-up plan? Want ideas for cheering up your co-workers? Email us at advice@goingconcern.comDear Caleb,

I’m starting with a Big 4 firm in October. I had an audit internship last summer where they spoke about all of the ‘flexibility’ within the firm. I was always more interested in the fraud/forensics side of accounting than audit; however, I felt that I had a better chance of getting an internship in audit due to the larger number of positions available. After taking a fraud course in my masters program this year, I confirmed my initial thought that I would much rather work in that field instead of audit.

How realistic is it to try to switch from audit to forensics within a Big 4 firm? How long should I wait until I ask about switching without burning any bridges? I feel like I already know about the normal downsides of a career in auditing, are there any unique differences (good or bad) from a career in forensics?

-Confused New Hire

Dear Confused,

We’re impressed. It was quite the sly move on your part, playing the numbers game. And per usual for a new associate, you’re thinking WAY ahead, which is fine but don’t forget you haven’t even set foot on hallowed Big 4 ground yet.

Regarding the “realistic” question, we’d venture that it falls somewhere in between “somewhat” and “not very” given the fact that your start date is months away. It’s closer to “not very” at this juncture because you have no work experience whatsoever. Forensics involves turning over lots of rocks and that simply takes time and it’s helpful if you have experience in another investigative career. Now, a switch is “somewhat realistic” for you because you know exactly what career path you’re interested in taking. You have many of your future colleagues (and some superiors) beat in this regard. To appropriately address this with your firm, discussing your interest in forensics with your career counselor and mentors is the best way to go. Simply asking about a transfer in your first year or two at the firm is coming on a little strong. Besides, a few years of auditing will serve your skills well as you prepare for a career in forensics.

As for pros and cons in forensics versus auditing, you’ve already discovered one advantage – the work is far more interesting. It’s also a specialized area, so it can be potentially more lucrative and is a unique skill set. As for disadvantages, forensics is a hot area right now and the groups are relatively small. The groups and demand for services may be growing but lots of people have are exploring this area and spots will fill up quick.

Another big disadvantage is that there’s an intangible quality that forensics experts have, that some people don’t and that is an inherent skeptical attitude and investigative intuition. Here’s what forensic expert Tracy Coenen told us last year:

It’s common for people to think that a good auditor makes a good forensic accountant, and that’s simply not the case. Some people have a gift for thinking outside the box and can get a gut feel for what’s wrong. Others only have a gift for reconciling numbers and using checklists. The [AICPA] survey addressed investigative intuition, but it didn’t even make it into the top five of core skills. I think that’s wrong on many levels.

In that same post, GC friend Sam Antar talked about having additional qualities:

An effective forensic accountant must have a pair of double iron clad balls and a triple thick skin. Prospective forensic accountants can count on making many enemies in the course of their work and must be unhinged by the retaliation that normally follows uncovering fraud and other misconduct. […] Effective forensic accountants must at least think like a scumbag to understand criminal behavior, techniques, and countermeasures.

So, in other words, you need to have raw talent and instincts. You may have wanted to be a professional baseball player when you were a kid but still couldn’t manage to hit a ball off a tee or catch a cold.

So to wrap it up, express interest in forensics but we don’t think you should come on too strong. If you do some time in auditing and perform well, you’ll give yourself a better chance of dipping a toe into a forensics group down the road. Good luck.

KPMG Advisory Doubles Down

KPMG’s head of advisory practice in the Americas, Mark Goodburn, recently gave an interview to Consulting Magazine where he predicted that the House of Klynveld would double its advisory revenue by 2015. While this an admirable goal, it certainly causes one to pause and ask the obvious question: “Does this mean we get double the meat?”

But forgetting animal flesh for just a sec, it may cause the more serious-minded of you to ask, “Just how in hell are you going to do that?” Well, MG goes into details about “transformational business,” “the evolving world of risk,” “the myriad of changes in public policy and regulation” and that’s all fine and good but we’re most interested/curious/shaking with anticipation about the acquisitions the firm will make.

Doubling a multi-billion-dollar business in no easy task, for sure, especially when you consider that KPMG advisory will probably have to significantly outpace the market, which most forecasters— including Kennedy Consulting Research & Advisory—expect will experience very modest growth the next several years. Most likely, the firm will have to make a few significant acquisitions along the way.

This probably doesn’t come as a surprise since we’ve seen Deloitte and PwC shopping around to boost their own advisory practices but Goodburn says you won’t see the HofK making a move on every boutique out there:

Goodburn’s quick to point out that any potential acquisitions, would have to meet KPMG’s criteria—the ability to upgrade to a global platform, quality controls that match the firm’s standards and a financially attractive opportunity for clients and employees. “We’re only looking for companies that meet our standards” he says.

Right, then. So for all you consulting boutiques out there sexing yourselves up to get a big pay day, you better be a match or you won’t be getting a blue rose. KPMG is looking for soulmates.

Naturally, all this revenue-doubling and business development talk means headcount will increase. The firm has already put it out there that they plan on hiring people in spades and MG makes no secret about who will be leading the charge:

Goodburn says KPMG has been hiring pretty aggressively since the firm saw its first sustained uptick back in early 2010, but will that be enough to keep pace? “We certainly expect advisory to grow faster than other parts of the KPMG business in the near and possibly longer term,” Goodburn says. “Our brand is very strong right now, clients are demanding our services, our people are outstanding, and our ability to recruit is extremely high.”

So, from the sounds of it, opportunity abounds for KPMG’s advisory business and anyone interested in joining the blue team. Whether this manifests into an extra-beefy future remains to be seen.

Double Time for KPMG [Consulting Magazine]

Comp Watch ’11: Follow-up on KPMG Transaction Services Midyear Adjustment

Sounds like the previously mentioned potential raises got the John Veihmeyer stamp of approval.

Follow up on the midyear comp email from last wk- srs get 4% and mgrs get 5%. Does not apply to corporate finance and restructuring. Call is still going on right now trying to sell KPMG big time and convince people to not leave

We’ve been told that the raises are effective immediately. We’ll keep you updated.

Compensation Watch ’11: KPMG Transactions and Restructuring Services May Get Some Extra Love

From the mailbag:

Thought y’all might be interested in hearing about a practice specific mid-year salary adjustment announced today [Monday]. Transactions and Restructuring (aka Transaction Services/TS; 750 people nationwide) had a national update call today during which, the partner in charge, Dan Tiemann [a Top 25 Consultant, no less], announced that he is very close to having firm leadership approve a mid-year comp adjustment for up to 5% for all members of the practice.

He mentioned that he is aware of the PwC iPad program and the Deloitte midyear raises and that it’s time that KPMG (well, at least the T&R practice) did something as well. This is in addition to the staff bonus program announced before xmas, and will be in addition to merit raises/incentive comp later this year

He said he’s well aware that somebody who wants to leave for a salary bump (as myself and many of my colleagues are considering) will not be deterred by a paltry 5%, but that he thinks the practice needed to do something to “show appreciation” for those who have sacrificed weekends and vacations during the past few months.

As our tipster notes, this is not yet approved by the brass but notes that “the recent barrage of defections” may have been a motivating factor. Also, our source doubted that anything like this would occur for large practices like audit or tax, “there is hope for the rest of advisory or other specialty practices.” If you hear any hopefulness for your practice – advisory, speciality or otherwise – email us.

KPMG’s Layoffs in Advisory May Have Made Room for Some Auditors

Happy Hangover Thursday, folks. Hopefully the green food coloring washed off easily this morning.

I was out networking with my Irish brothers last night in midtown New York, quite a few blocks north of my normal after-work locale. Second Avenue bars full of cold beer and burned out white collars, St. Patty’s Day was a welcomed Wednesday relief for those in busy season. The day was over, the night was turning late and, for once, shop talk was put on the back burner. That is, until I heard the phrase “Uncle Peat” used as the object of affection bitterness for a toast.

Obviously, I couldn’t resist.


DWB: “Are you guys auditors?”

Auditor 1: “Yeah, over at KPMG. Hopefully not for long, though.”

DWB: “Nice, nice. Moving on to better things?”

Auditor 2: “Hopefully.”

Auditor 1: “Not soon enough.”

A round of drinks later (toast to Uncle Peat not included) and these Irish-for-the-day gentlemen filled me in about an email circulating around KPMG’s NYC audit practice regarding a temporary rotation into the Transaction Services (TS) practice. TS specializes in mergers & acquisitions work and was — most likely — hit steeply by the rounds of the falling guillotine back in 2008 and 2009.

How does a practice that was hemorrhaging money and resources a year ago now have business blowing through the door at such a fierce rate? If you read anything beyond the usual busy season distractions, it’d come as no surprise to you that the markets are slowly picking up. But service firms typically lag in response, both on the positive (Woo-hoo, new business!) and negative (Sorry, this isn’t about you – this is about the numbers) sides of the equation. Nonetheless, Uncle Peat’s auditors should be leaping at this opportunity. A rotation out of audit can be refreshing, even in the quieter months of summer.

Did KPMG’s advisory shake up and realignment pay off? Is the firm’s leadership blowing smoke to perk up the down-trodden auditors currently drowning in busy season? Was a picture of a giant carrot on a string used in the email? If you received this email, I’d love to read the text. Last night’s informants promised to send it over, but they probably called in with emergency doctor “appointments” this morning.